Ben Shaw on Mike Rinder

Ben describes Mike Rinder’s attitude toward staff as arrogant, which manifested in demeaning interactions and acts of physical violence.

TRANSCRIPT:

My name is Ben Shaw. I have been a staff member and a Scientologist since 1971. So, during the time period of which I had the most interaction with Mike was when I was in the management office of the External Affairs Branch of the Church. I would say that his general attitude towards his staff was one of arrogance. He did not have a lot of personal interaction to actually solve the types of problems that we had to solve as the External Affairs Branch. But when he did, it was an attitude that, “You don’t know what you’re doing. I do. So, you know, you should be feeling ashamed of yourself.”

This was a matter where, in Los Angeles at the management office of [the] External Affairs Office, probably around 1994, and it was a serious matter, which myself and two other executives had been working on and I was presenting the data to him in his office. He was sitting with his legs up at his desk, clipping his fingernails very meticulously. Like, this is all he really, was really interested in doing, is making sure that his fingernails were clipped properly. And it was kind of like I was talking to somebody who was so above it all and so just, you know, myself and the others were so below him, that it only warranted him clipping his fingernails in response to my presentation.

It was not an attitude of Scientology. It was an attitude of somebody who was attempting to prove that he was better than other people. From my view, was doing things to try to impress his superiors in the management structure of the Church. And so, if he thought that his superior wanted a certain answer, he would give that answer and it didn’t really relate to the actuality of the facts and the truth. And the reason I know that is because I was responsible for reporting facts and data. I was in that branch of the Church and I would be often puzzled when those would be altered when he passed it on.

The few times that I had personal interaction with him, it was introduced with a criticism like, “Oh, why are you so worried, Ben?” And then it would go on to discuss whatever it was, the issue that we were dealing with at the time. So I learned to deal with that without having, without even reacting to his, essentially an intent to bait me to do or say something that would be upsetting.

We were preparing for a legal hearing the next morning. I was in one office and some of my staff were in another office. And I at one point needed some information from a staff member in the other office, and I spoke so I could be heard through the office. And I then didn’t get a response, so I walked over to the other office and I was halfway between the two offices, Mike was standing there and he had this expression on his face like he was furious that nothing had been completed yet that we needed to get done.

And he just grabbed me by the throat, with my shirt and my throat, and shoved me up against the wall and basically said, “Shut the fuck up.” I was shocked, I mean he, I’d never, this is the only time ever in my history since 1971 as a staff member ever been physically assaulted by anybody, anybody in the Church, much less an executive. He was supposed to be overseeing and helping his staff get things done.